Saturday, June 29, 2013

When Muslims intermarry, do they keep the faith? - By Naomi Schaefer Riley - Washington Post

http://www.wpost.com/opinions/american-muslims-are-following-jews-when-it-comes-to-intermarriage/2013/04/12/1c23d352-97bf-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story_1.html#

When Muslims intermarry, do they keep the faith?

Emiliano Ponzi for The Washington Post

By Naomi Schaefer Riley, Published: April 13

Naomi Schaefer Riley is the author of “ ’Til Faith Do Us Part: How Interfaith Marriage Is Transforming America.”

When it comes to intermarriage, Muslims are becoming the new Jews.

About a century ago, when hundreds of thousands of Jews were immigrating to the United States, only about 1 percent, by some estimates, married non-Jews. Now, about 30 percent of Jews are married to someone outside the faith. American Muslims are going through a similar transition, one that could profoundly change the Muslim experience in the United States.

Unlike the Jewish refugees from Eastern Europe, most of these Muslim immigrants, the biggest groups of whom arrived in the 1970s, were from the middle and upper classes and came for a university education. Some planned to return to their countries, but as the political situation at home deteriorated, a large population settled here. Today, American Jews and Muslims make up a similarly small portion of the population; they are generally highly educated and well-off, and both groups are concentrated in major metropolitan areas.
Although estimates of interfaith marriage among small population groups such as Muslims are hard to pin down, a 2011 Pew Research Center study found that about 16 percent of Muslims who are married or living with someone have a non-Muslim spouse or partner. That was the first year Pew studied whom Muslims married, and it’s one of the only organizations to do so. Muslims intermarry less often than other faith groups with longer histories in the United States, such as Catholics and Jews, but they do so more often than Hindus (10 percent) and about as often as Mormons (17 percent), according to a 2007 Pew study.

Heather and Abdullah are one of these intermarried couples. (I use only the first names of couples here because some of their families are unfamiliar with their stories or have not accepted their marriages.) They met on Match.com in 2004; his profile had an Americanized version of his name — Al — and said he was neutral toward religion. Heather’s profile said she was looking for a Christian, a detail Abdullah says he hadn’t noticed. His family had left Afghanistan for upstate New York when he was 3. And although he went to religious school every week for almost 10 years, it didn’t take. In high school, he started dating non-Muslims but never told his parents. “As I got older, religion became more of an issue for people [I dated],” he told me. “But it really wasn’t something that defined me.”

When they got married in 2007, Heather and Abdullah had two weddings. One was a traditional Muslim Nikah ceremony with both sets of parents and 10 couples as witnesses. A few days later, they had what they call their “American wedding,” with a pastor presiding. Most of Abdullah’s extended family didn’t show up for the second ceremony, although he is not sure whether that’s because they didn’t want to attend a Christian ceremony or because they were just very late (an Afghan cultural tendency, he said).
At the reception, Afghan and American food was served, an Afghan live band and an American DJ entertained, and the couple’s relatives didn’t quite know how to interact. Now both families are involved in raising Heather and Abdullah’s son. For the most part, everyone seems to get along.

Heather and Abdullah are the new face of intermarriage in the United States. They didn’t marry until they had been living on their own for some time. And they met online, where it’s more common to find people outside your immediate social and religious circles.

In the 1950s, 40 years into the Jewish mass migration to the United States, fewer than 1 in 10 Jews married someone outside the faith. Now, four decades into the Muslim mass migration, about 1 in 6 Muslims are intermarrying. Muslim intermarriages are likely to increase more quickly than they did for Jews, because unlike the early 20th century, there are no religious or racial limits in universities and workplaces, and people’s social circles are far more diverse.

Also, under Islamic law men are allowed to marry out of the faith — as long as they marry a Jew or
Christian, referred to as “People of the Book.” Behind this rule is the notion that Islam is passed down patrilineally (unlike Judaism, which is matrilineal). So, no matter whom a Muslim man marries, his children will be considered Muslim.

Lost in this loophole is the fact that, in American homes, women tend to run the religious show. They are typically the ones attending religious services and shuttling children to and from religious school. Muslim community leaders tell me that raising Muslim children without the mother’s help is very difficult.

Steve Mustapha Elturk, an imam in Troy, Mich., says that his first marriage was to a Catholic Filipina woman. The couple sent one of their children to Catholic school, while Elturk taught him the Koran at home. Elturk said that he did not place enough emphasis on the Muslim faith when his children were young and that it affected their decisions as adults. He believes that things went much more smoothly with his second wife, a Muslim, and that his children from their marriage received a stronger Muslim upbringing.

According to a nationally representative survey I commissioned in 2010 of almost 2,500 people, children in interfaith families are more than twice as likely to adopt the faith of their mother as the faith of their father. If Muslim men continue to marry outside the faith at such high rates, the women left behind will be more inclined to do so as well because there will be fewer available Muslim partners. Meanwhile, families where the mother is Muslim and the father is not are less likely to be accepted in the Muslim community because technically their marriages are forbidden.

Other forces push Muslims toward intermarrying as well. Religious rules often prevent Muslims of the opposite sex from socializing with one another, and because most Muslims work and go to school with non-Muslims, it’s often easier for them to meet and get to know potential partners outside the faith.

For example, Qanta A. Ahmed, a Muslim physician in New York, wrote in a USA Today op-ed last year that Muslim women “frequently lack intellectually and professionally equal Muslim partners” and that Muslim men often choose younger, less career-focused Muslim women of the same nationality. “These forces drive Muslim women to either select suitable marriage partners from outside the faith or face unremitting spinsterhood.”

And even when a non-Muslim man converts for a Muslim fiancee, he often does so merely to placate the bride’s family, and not out of deep conviction. Munira Lekovic Ezzeldine, author of “Before the Wedding: 150 Questions for Muslims to Ask Before Getting Married,” says she has seen many cases in which a significant other becomes a “token Muslim.” He or she will say the shahada, the declaration of faith, Ezzeldine says, but if the Muslim half of the couple is not very observant, the non-Muslim is often merely doing the conversion “for the sake of having a Muslim marriage.”

Part of the problem, Ezzeldine says, is that conversion to Islam is not a long or arduous process. There is no curriculum to master, no test of religious knowledge. Rather, Islam is similar to some strains of evangelical Protestantism in which people can say they were moved by the spirit and they are instantly “born again.”

Mohamed Magid, the imam and executive director of the All Dulles Area Muslim Society in Sterling, tells me that he often tries to press men on their motivations before they convert and that he has even told couples he won’t marry them if he is not convinced the conversion is serious.

The pressures families place on young Muslims to marry someone of similar background can be counterproductive, says Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California. Immigrant parents often want their children to find a spouse of the same nationality, an attitude that second-generation American Muslims find impractical, if not downright backward.

“We have at our center,” Turk says, “something like 60 different nationalities, and so we try our best to bring them together and say, ‘Yes, you like Pakistan. You like being Egyptian, or whatever, but your children are not that. They’re American, and so let’s come together. We’re a faith community. We’re not an Egyptian community or a Pakistani community.’” And focusing on common cultural customs, Turk argues, is less important than finding someone with common beliefs.

Just as assimilation has meant that there are few corners of the United States where Jews are unwelcome, intermarriage — and the assimilation that comes with it — is likely to make Americans more accepting of Muslims.

When Dia, who grew up in a black Baptist church, began dating a Muslim man in college, her mother was concerned. “For her this was a crack in God’s faith for me to want to marry someone who doesn’t believe Jesus Christ was our lord and savior,” Dia said. She did not convert but before she married, and since, her husband and her mother have had long conversations about faith.

Now, Dia says, “My family has accepted him with open arms. All of our views of Islam have changed because we’ve taken the time to educate ourselves. My mom finds herself defending his religion to others.”

This is borne out in survey data as well. In a 2011 study conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 79 percent of Muslims rated their communities very positively as places to live. And most think that “ordinary Americans are friendly (48 percent) or neutral (32 percent) toward Muslim Americans.”

But some Muslim leaders are beginning to wonder whether this assimilation will weaken their religious communities. Will people continue to adhere to the faith? Will the mosques continue to be a center of community life? Will the holiday traditions simply pass away with an older generation?

The high rates of interfaith marriage are a cause and an effect of lower attendance rates at mosques, Turk says. He says that of the roughly 750,000 Muslims living in Southern California, just 30,000, or about 4 percent, regularly attend Friday prayer.

But few Muslim leaders I spoke with had thought about this trend’s long-term effects. Because the Jewish community has been wrestling with this issue for so long, some of its leaders were willing to speculate about the road that Muslims are headed down. Jonathan Sarna, a history professor at Brandeis University, has studied intermarriage of Jews and other religious groups. Although Muslims worldwide are in no way facing the kind of demographic decline that Jews are, he says that if American Muslims want to encourage Muslims to marry Muslims, they could create more opportunities for men and women to meet long before they’re considering marriage — be it at summer camps, youth groups and certain kinds of schools or colleges.

“Throwing people together in intensive kinds of activities is so wonderful because on the one hand, people are making free choice, the ultimate American value,” Sarna says, “and on the other hand, people they can choose from conveniently all have the same faith background.”

But there are less concrete ideas that Muslim leaders might consider, Sarna says. He thinks they need to explain to young people and their parents why they should marry among themselves: “Even as we celebrate America for making the melting pot possible — and I at least celebrate the America that has allowed people of different races to marry — nevertheless they need to articulate a rhetoric that they want to preserve Islam in America.”

And that can happen, he says, only “if Muslims marry other Muslims.”

Naomi Schaefer Riley is the author of “ ’Til Faith Do Us Part: How Interfaith Marriage Is Transforming America.”

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Freedom37

4/21/2013 1:26 PM GMT+0530

Thank you for this article, Naomi. Discussion of this topic has been long overdue.
Clearly many Muslims who marry here do so just for the "Green Card." But in that respect Muslims are no different than many other immigrants. Of those who marry for the sake of it, I have seen many who remain married forever. But, sadly, I have also seen many who end their marriages. However, I do not think such marriages necessarily end because of Muslim beliefs; I think they succumb to the same societal pressures that are responsible for high divorce rates in America. All told, I think there is a case to be made for marrying in one's own culture if doing so would prevent divorce, especially when there are children involved. As for those Muslims who expect their Christian wives to convert to prevent divorce, I quote cite the following from Prophet Muhammad's letter to the Assyrian Christians:

““The Muslims shall not force Christian women to accept Islam, but if they themselves wish to embrace it, the Muslims shall be kind to them.

“If a Christian woman is married to a Muslim and does not want to embrace Islam, she has liberty to worship at her own church according to her own religious belief, and her husband must not treat her unkindly on account of her religion. If anyone disobeys this command, he disobeys God and his prophet and will be guilty of a great offense.”

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Secular1

4/16/2013 1:21 AM GMT+0530

My personal experience has been that inter-religious weddings are just fine and as much fun as single faith weddings. Unless, one of them is a Muslim. I have attended several inter-marriages of hindu boys and girls with other religionists, mostly with christians, or jews. They generally have two ceremonies, one Hindu (indigenous to the person's region or community) and teh other christian or jewish. Never an issue. But when of the parties is muslim, the whole hell breaks lose. It generally is limited to one or the other ceremony. In all these cases it is because of the islamic intransigence. So they end up being mostly muslim ceremony (due to the mullah's intransigence that he will not preside if the couple is going for the other wedding also).

In one case one of our Pakistani friends daughter was getting married to her fiancee, white groom. Even though, they seemed to be secular, for the wedding they insisted on teh boy to convert (even if it was for pretenses). I refused to attend their wedding, had huge fracas with my wife on the issue. She was of the view that it was consensual, so it was none of my bees wax. I was of teh view that the subject shouldn't even be broached. As far as whether it was my bees wax or not, it definitely was my bees wax, whether I attended that wedding or not. So I did not attend it, and told my wife that that she may not to spend my half of the customary gift amount.

My admonishment to my children vis-a-vis marriage were:

1) No emotional non-platonic entanglements with teh opposite gender till they get their first degree.
2) I do not give two hoots to whom they marry, in terms of faith, except muslim and absolutely no pious muslim
3) They would have a tough time getting me to accept such a marriage to them.
4) If they have to convert to islam, they may as well say good byes for the rest of my life. I do not believe in exchanging one set of fairy tales and lies for another set of lies and fairy tales.

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GayMarriedProud

4/15/2013 11:20 PM GMT+0530

We need to ban inter-religious marriage. After all, religion is just a choice and the Bible expressly prohibits it.

If we really are going to protect the sanctity of traditional marriage, we should start by outlawing inter-religious marriages.

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Critique

4/15/2013 7:52 PM GMT+0530

Unfortunately, the intermarriage issue is only present in the USA where there are only a few Muslims with respect to the general population. Intermarriage in Muslim countries is next to impossible because there are so few non-Muslims in these countries due the koran's dictates concerning infidels.

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Abey

4/15/2013 7:12 PM GMT+0530

When the daughter of one of my friends expressed her wish to marry a Muslim I advised her that Muslims in general do not think the same way as non Muslims: They more or less treat their women as property. She went ahead and married the man only to divorce him soon afterwards. He in turn went back to his Middle East country and married his sixteen year old cousin and brought her back to live with him in this country.. This looks more like a trend since many to get a residency and the instant they get it they go and marry from their own relatives back home.

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pjs-1965

4/15/2013 8:50 AM GMT+0530

Why is is that we are predominantly Christian in the West? I think it's because of an expedient political decision by the Roman emperor Constantine to hold together an empire that was falling apart. Christianity was one of many popular religions at the time, so he chose that one to hold things in an empire that believed in many gods culturally and politically. He then appointed a committee to nail down certain canons that were floating around into a standard format and distributed it throughout the empire. A few decades later emperor Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the empire. In some ways Islam was a rection to that.

Somehow I think Constantine would be flabbergasted that all this crap really matters to people today.

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patriot1

4/15/2013 5:43 PM GMT+0530

Nice try! I think that people learned the teachings of Jesus and believed He was and is our Savior. Like a tiny seed planted in the ground, blossomed a beautiful tree.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:54 PM GMT+0530

Yes, yes. There are SO MANY people who follow the teachings of Jesus. AHAHAHAHA. You own an assault rifle, patriot? Do you house the homeless, feed the poor, defend the harlots, speak out against greed and avarice? Are you prepared to turn the other cheek and love your neighbor as yourself?
Yessir. That's some beautiful tree!

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mohammadakhan

4/15/2013 8:23 AM GMT+0530

World would be a different place absent Saudi oil and Zionism.The reincarnation of medieval mythology spreading with the power of Saudi money and Zionist lobby have been a big set back to human intellectual progress.

Let us keep our schools,politics, and markets free of mythological fanaticism.

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pertc47

4/15/2013 8:40 AM GMT+0530

Does this mean you would advise against Jews and Muslims intermarrying?

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mohammadakhan

4/15/2013 8:51 AM GMT+0530

I have no business who people marry.Just imagine how many compatible couples are not getting together because of religion?

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pertc47

4/15/2013 8:59 AM GMT+0530

Can they at least date, or would that trigger a whole host of Saudi Zionist nonsense?

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mohammadakhan

4/15/2013 9:00 AM GMT+0530

Give it a try and let us know.

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pertc47

4/15/2013 9:02 AM GMT+0530

I'm just asking. Sorry.

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mohammadakhan

4/15/2013 9:09 AM GMT+0530

No,no,no.I am sorry!

I know that this religious worm has found a niche in human psych.We have deactivated Roman,Greek,Egyptian mythology.How and when can we deactivate the remaining ones?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:42 PM GMT+0530

The Saudi-Zionist thing is no more nonsense than the Sunni-Shia thing, or the Catholic-Protestant thing of recent years in Ireland. It's all conflict based on ignorance and ancient superstitions, indoctrinated into people on their daddy's knee. We've got to get over this medieval crap, if we're to progress as a species.

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pertc47

4/15/2013 9:21 PM GMT+0530

"The Saudi-Zionist thing"

LOL.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 10:07 PM GMT+0530

"Saudi-Zionist nonsense"

LOL

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swhiteside

4/15/2013 7:10 AM GMT+0530

When some one posts general comments about sects or faiths it seems they don't know what they are talking about. For example not all Baptists are the same. here are the two largest. The Southern Baptist Convention (Nashville, TN) and the American Baptist Churches (Valley Forge, PA are two different denominations that share a vastly different track record concerning Christian ethics & ecumenical behavior yet share the same theology. Something similar can be said for Missouri Synod Lutherans and the much larger Evangelican Lutheran Church in America. Yet it is the intractable groups that get the press. This seems to be true in Judaism and Islam as well. Just like it is in secular humanism! Also, the same seems to go for people talking about women in the New Testament era until about 325 AD. Women taught and were ministers and deacons counter to what many think. As time wore on the power of culture and the need for calm in the political sphere allowed men to push women out using any means they could acquire. Finally I find it interesting when secular people and Fundamentalists argue from the Biblical text in the same manner using a literal translation, when the Bible was not assembled to be an instruction manual by either Faith community. So one needs to know what was going on then, like Paul's writing about women in Corinthians was it written for all time or for a particular problem that was problematic at the time. Did Paul understand what he was writing was going to be made into Scripture with equivalency to Exodus?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 7:23 AM GMT+0530

The bible was not "assembled to be an instruction manual"? Have you mentioned this to any of the bible-quoters that populate the christian community? I was in some very old, small churches in the Med. ALL of them had separate seating in the back for women. Women were DEFINITELY second-class. No amount of revisionism will change that. Women are STILL held to second-class status by many of the christian religions. There was an article in the WaPo YESTERDAY about women being arrested at some stonepile in Israel because they were arguing for equality AGAINST ISRAELI LAW. You can sprinkle sugar all over it if you like, but it's a manure-wagon you've hitched up to, and the flies ain't there for the sugar..

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DebChatterjee

4/15/2013 6:36 AM GMT+0530

For detractors of Colby here is another from the Quran again. (This verse incidentally was a motivation for the Al-Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist groups to wage Jihad and commit suicide bombings.)

"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,- "[Quran(004:095)].

Regarding status of other minority religions in an Islamic state or a country whose majority population is Muslims, this is what we find:

" Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "[Quran(009:029)].

Make your own decision. As long as Muslims are in minority (meaning less than 5% of the population), it's fine. Increase in numerical majority starts the problem. Look at Great Britain & France and other European countries. The PEW poll has Muslims as 0.6% of the US population. Wait till it gets to be greater than 5%. All this interfaith baloney will be wiped out. It has in some other countries.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:46 AM GMT+0530

Oh no! Not MISCEGINATION! We's cain't git misceginated! That would be baloney and would be wiped out!

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Freedom37

4/21/2013 1:05 PM GMT+0530

Deb,
So you predict dire consequences when the Muslims become 5% in the West? Hmm. Let me point out what the West was able to achieve without Muslims being at 5%, or any %.
1) Decimation of the Native Americans. 2) Brutal enslavement of African-Americans for centuries, despite such proclamations as "all men are created equal." 3) Depriving women of the right to vote for a long time. 4) Perpetrating the belief for a long time that women have no soul. 5) WWI. 6) WW2. 7) The Holocaust. 8) The Inquisitions. Actually these honorable deeds were done even when the Muslims were 5% or more. 8) Communism and its horrific Gulags (unless you thin Russia is not a Western nation). I am sure you realize this is not a comprehensive list.
My points: Don’t blame the ills of the World on Muslims, or for that matter, on any other single group. Don’t come from a presumptive higher moral ground. The ills of the World have multiplicity of causes, and religion is just one part of them, indeed often a very small part, and even at that when it is misinterpreted to serve nefarious cause of one sort or another.

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mongolovesheriff

4/15/2013 6:27 AM GMT+0530

All religion is stupid.

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Dan Butler

4/15/2013 6:28 AM GMT+0530

Straight and to the polnt!

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:29 AM GMT+0530

DAMN straight!

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najafmahmud

4/15/2013 1:19 PM GMT+0530

that is one way of looking at it.....

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Secular1

4/16/2013 5:12 AM GMT+0530

That is teh only way to look at it

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Peter225

4/15/2013 6:27 AM GMT+0530

If only Muslin women would discover that this archaic religion that keeps them as second class citizens is complete bunk and superstition, as is the myth about Jesus floating up to heaven after he was killed. However, the religion is working out nicely for Muslim men who, despite their intellect or abilities, still rule supreme over women because they're all duped into believing some ridiculous superstition that was debunked decades ago by modern science. So pathetic.....

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:28 AM GMT+0530

You could easily replace "Muslim" with "Catholic" or "Baptist" in your paragraph, and be saying the exact same thing...

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:34 AM GMT+0530

Not exactly. The Koran is much more explicit in its treatment of women as second class citizens. Not all religions are the same, nor do they preach the same message. I'm not going to convince you, rbaughman. My audience are those open-minded folks who are willing to let truth win out.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:37 AM GMT+0530

Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.~Deuteronomy 28:53-57

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:40 AM GMT+0530

Timothy 2-11-15
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 119 helpful votes

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ESV / 87 helpful votes

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

1 Corinthians 11:5 ESV / 53 helpful votes

But every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:42 AM GMT+0530

Sounds pretty second class to me...

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DebChatterjee

4/15/2013 6:43 AM GMT+0530

Rbaughman1:

Citing these from the Bible does not imply that Christianity is a theocracy. Christ did not preach it that way. Islam indeed is. Your opinions about Islam don't matter. What matters what Islam says and what Muslim scholars say. All scholars have opined that Islam means implementation of the Shariah law. Did Christ preach or formulate something like the Shariah law?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:48 AM GMT+0530

MY opinions about Islam don't matter? Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, Deb, but neither do yours... Thankfully.

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flow0347

4/15/2013 8:15 AM GMT+0530

Sorry, women are not second class citizens in Islam. They are just women, something to produce sons for the faith. Just remembering some things I read and my encounters with those that were or are followers of the religion.

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najafmahmud

4/15/2013 1:33 PM GMT+0530

deb....did christ ever establish a state to be in a postion to implement a law?...of course your knowledge on that is very limited......

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herzliebster

4/16/2013 3:07 PM GMT+0530

That quote from Deuteronomy is a description of the horrors of starvation brought on by war. It says, "If you keep on with your evil ways, there will be such a war, such a siege, such a series of disasters, that even the most refined and delicate among you will have no hesitation to eat your own children, or to hoard disgusting food for yourself and hide it even from those closest to you. That's what happens in war and that's how bad it will be."

What the heck does that have to do with the subjugation of women?

Learn to READ.

There's gender inequality in the Bible, all right, but that quote from Deuteronomy has zero to do with it.

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citizen625

4/15/2013 6:18 AM GMT+0530

"As our Muslim population grows all the problems Europe is having will eventually happen here as well." It is easy to dismiss that quote with a brushback of PCism. PCism says that one's own ethic group can be intermixed and should be intermixed, I think. The management of disparate groups within confined settings has all the ingredients for conflict. This conflict between/among racial/spiritual groups is totally exacerbated or eased by bad or good economic conditions.
Look at the Muslims in Norway. While they live apart from the natives, they cooperate functionally with them because they are surrounded by economic largess. England is not quite so good. Also, the idea that Muslims are a monolith is like saying all Christians are the same.
Nice people attract nice people and usually come from nice people. Intolerant blowhards are the opposite.

As for Colby, the photo of the catholic priests with the nazi salute says it all in response to you.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:21 AM GMT+0530

Right. Wasn't that long ago that there was much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth over the growing Catholic population. Before that, it was the Chinese. It's just ignorance wanting something (or someone) to look down on...

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:22 AM GMT+0530

Please view the Sam Harris clip I've listed. After this, if you choose to ignore the persuasive argument, at least you can do if from a slightly more educated viewpoint.

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:30 AM GMT+0530

To those of you who like NPR, the science section of the NY Times, have a subscription to National Geographic... if you like crosswords... read history book for enjoyment... if you are a THINKER.... please view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNndF8RP7Lw

Thank you.

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citizen625

4/15/2013 6:36 AM GMT+0530

What? You're a paid commercial endorsement for 'bad Muslim, good Christians' everywhere? I can lay my discriminating lens anywhere, even myself. What Pope or Billy or Franklin Graham or orthodox rabbi (who makes a fortune from his followers) criticizes themselves? Zero. Criticism is "bad for business".

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:55 AM GMT+0530

If you're a THINKER, watch 'is-heer YOOUTOOB!

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:09 AM GMT+0530

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNndF8RP7Lw

If you are for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedoms of speech, please take a moment to view this. Thank you.

"Why Islam is Violent and Buddhism and Jainism are not - Sam Harris"

Liked by 2 readers

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:13 AM GMT+0530

Definitely a hate-monger, stuck on the "troll" button. Move on Colby, your hatred is not sticking here...

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:16 AM GMT+0530

and YOUTUBE? Oh, yeah, I ALWAYS get my political opinions from youtubes! They are SO factual, unbiased, and matter-of-fact...

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:19 AM GMT+0530

I care about human rights - if you do, please take a moment to educate yourself. Sam Harris is a NY Times best-selling author. The clip on youtube is from C-Span2. If you view it yourself, perhaps you'd be less willing to disparage the venue.

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:20 AM GMT+0530

To those people who let FACTS form their beliefs, and not the other way around, please view the clip. Thank you.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:26 AM GMT+0530

Oh, yes. Those pesky beliefs, searching the youtubes of the world for some reasons to hate. What did you ever do before the internet?

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:03 AM GMT+0530

The holy scriptures of any religion can be interpreted in ways to suit the user, but Islam makes it very easy to justify violence against women and non-Muslims.

Please go to youtube and put in "Why Islam is Violent and Buddhism and Jainism are not - Sam Harris" (cut and paste this).

Sam Harris is an non-deist - not a big fan of any religion - but understands there are differences between religions, much as there are differences between political systems.

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citizen625

4/15/2013 6:10 AM GMT+0530

Christianity and the way the evangelicals target young impressionable minds with a long future of weekly alms donations ahead of them is how different than Islam? Less violent? Aren't these the same evangelicals who think divorcing an abusive husband is sinful? Or aborting a fetus is the worst sin?
Your description of Islam is as unfaithful as my description of ballet dancing.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:12 AM GMT+0530

"The holy scriptures" talk about an oxymoron....

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dijetlau

4/15/2013 6:01 AM GMT+0530

As far as I can see, Islam in the US is making great strides to becoming a modern faith, accepting of pluralism.
In other places.... not so much.

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flow0347

4/15/2013 8:33 AM GMT+0530

Personally I look at what is happening to non Muslims in Egypt (Coptic church) Christians. Islam is not a friendly religion for non believers. In most countries in the Middle East they ended up marrying a cousin? Why? The other Muslim countries are not much better once a dictator is over thrown, so Syria watch out. I am wondering when will Great Britain start asking Muslims to leave? The French seem to be getting ready to stop Muslims from moving into France. Germans are struggling hard to keep their neo nazis in check regarding Islam. Islam gives the appearance of declaring war on all who do not believe as they believe.

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SamRon1

4/15/2013 5:55 AM GMT+0530

Well, lucky for all the Muslims in the article, their kids will indeed be Muslim since it is automatic through the father's bloodline (a la Barack Hussein Obama) until a major, formal rejection of the religion. Ironically such a rejection is prohibited by most Muslims and one must be an adult to do so.

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dijetlau

4/15/2013 6:00 AM GMT+0530

The Irish claim Obama is Irish.
The Kenyans claim he's Kenyan.
The Muslims claim he's Muslim...

People just really seem to like that guy, don't they?

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flow0347

4/15/2013 8:36 AM GMT+0530

He was raised by his mother, and most people end up following their mothers religious teachings. A la Barack Obama, the Irish Kenyan American Baptist.

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 5:49 AM GMT+0530

If a women chooses to convert to Islam, she should first learn about its views on women and on non-Muslims.

Women are clearly considered inferior. Whether as a witness to a crime (where a women's testimony must be corroborated by a mans), or physical violence (a man is permitted, within restrictions, to strike his "disobedient" wife with a stick)... these are but a few examples.... a woman is not considered an equal.

And should either a man or women decide to LEAVE Islam, the official and universally agreed upon sanction is DEATH. Yes, that is the Koranic answer for anyone who chooses to leave Islam. The Koran and mainstream interpretations of Islam are explicit on this. Enforcement may be an issue in the US, but it happens in other countries.

Please visit www.jihadwatch.org to learn about such incidents.

If you believe in freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and womens' rights, then you might wish to educate yourself about this topic.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:53 AM GMT+0530

Seems to me I've seen some women in Israel being arrested for wearing shawls at a certain place... and then the Catholic women are forbidden to use birth control.. and those damned Mormons would like to marry a bunch of girls straight out of 8th grade.

You sure you want to go here?

Liked by 1 reader

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 5:56 AM GMT+0530

While Christianity and (modern) Judiasm can become distorted to become violent, Islam needs to become distorted to be NON-violent. Islam is fundamentally different. This is a crucial difference. Most people have not read the Koran and therefore assume that "all religions preach the same thing". That is akin to saying that all political systems are the same.

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dijetlau

4/15/2013 5:58 AM GMT+0530

Catholic women are forbidden to use birth control?

Has anybody told them that?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:00 AM GMT+0530

Actually they ALL can and have been distorted to violence... and it begins with the "us-against-them" mentality of the ignorant. That, apparently, is universal across time and religions.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:00 AM GMT+0530

dij, I believe they're told on a regular basis.

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Dan Butler

4/15/2013 6:01 AM GMT+0530

They like me don't listen to the pope either.

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ColbysTruth

4/15/2013 6:01 AM GMT+0530

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dijetlau

4/15/2013 6:03 AM GMT+0530

Meh... One of the most common phrases heard in the history of man is " We gotta go kill those guys and take their stuff."
Sometimes they claim it's Gods will, but that don't make it so.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 6:04 AM GMT+0530

The "us-against-them" mentality of the ignorant. That would be you, Colby. It's jihadists, but it's also www.jihadwatch.org. It's the ignorant hatred in the mud huts of Afghanistan, but it's also "Why Islam is Violent and Buddhism and Jainism are not - Sam Harris""

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dijetlau

4/15/2013 6:04 AM GMT+0530

Actually, I think you're going to have to search long and hard to find a parish priest who's telling his US congregation that birth control is evil in a sermon.

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mim

4/15/2013 5:46 AM GMT+0530

Been married to a Muslim man for 43 years and I kept my faith and he his. We have had no problems to speak of. We have great respect for each other's faith. Keeping our faiths is 'who we are.' Giving up on our beliefs will only diminish us.

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Dan Butler

4/15/2013 5:40 AM GMT+0530

The reason free people intermarry is that for most religion is a social club useful for acceptence into a community or family. Faith is a sham compared to love.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:41 AM GMT+0530

Love is a sham compared to wine.

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Dan Butler

4/15/2013 5:43 AM GMT+0530

Bourbon works tonight.

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SamRon1

4/15/2013 5:39 AM GMT+0530

"'A 2011 Pew Research Center study found that about 16 percent of Muslims who are married or living with someone have a non-Muslim spouse or partner.'"

16%. Why the spazzing out and speaking about 30%, 50%, plus? Discredits the article, its anecdotes, and the people/studies quotes.

Maybe some people like the good universal values found in some people, regardless of their religious or spiritual backgrounds. Others have a more tribal mentality and approach to their lineage. Each will find his or her own match, parents will have to deal, and may even grow too.

Liked by 4 readers

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crisp11

4/15/2013 4:49 AM GMT+0530

Someone needs to investigate just how many of these marriages are shams.

I know dozens of women who have married muslim men. Then they get divorced some five or six years later as soon as he gets permanent resident status. There is even a network of handlers who facilitate these marriages. They find women, generally poorer and with small kids, who they pay to get married. They then give the women monthly stipends and other perks. The men live apart, though close enough to show up at a moments notice should ICE or DHS come poking around.

The woman maintains the full illusion that she is married. He has clothes and personal items at her home, never used, but there to make it seem like he lives there. There are pictures of them on the wall. There are photo albums of significant events. Love letters. Engraved gifts. And it is all carefully staged by the handlers.

If anyone should ever question why he maintains a separate residence, the stock answer is that doing so is merely cultural and for business purposes. And there is apparently a whole lot of business happening what with regular trips lasting weeks or more to countries not necessarily having anything to do with their own country of origin. Yemen, Morocco, and Pakistan seem to be popular destinations. In the meantime, they "work" at convenience stores, Islamic-oriented groceries and bookstores, and coffee shops. You know, all industries that require extensive foreign travel to keep up with the latest techniques in how to make a latte.

Once the divorce is final, then the man sends for his real family and kids still living patiently in the homeland. Or perhaps he is too busy with any cell he may be involved in to keep a family at his original home.

And if I know of dozens of these sham marriages just in my city alone. there must be tens of thousands nationwide.

Liked by 6 readers

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:54 AM GMT+0530

If you think they're terrorists, why haven't you turned them in?

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crisp11

4/15/2013 4:56 AM GMT+0530

The FBI is apparently fully aware of what is happening. I have a friend who is a field agent. He doesn't say much about it, but did let on that they know the score. Yet it continues and nothing seems to happen to anyone involved. It may be simply a convenient means of getting friends and relatives into the US under the cover of marriage laws, but it really stinks regardless of the reason.

Liked by 3 readers

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crisp11

4/15/2013 5:01 AM GMT+0530

And having noted all that, I must say that I know a few women who have married guys from countries like Australia, Poland, and Russia that follow the same pattern and who are not muslim. So it apparently is a rather widespread phenomenon. But there does not seem to be the integrated network of handlers involved. And those non-muslim marriages also do not involve men from nations that harbor folks who want to kill us.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:01 AM GMT+0530

So all the stuff about "cells" and suspicious travel? Just your imagination? As for the marriage-for-citizenship you think being Muslim has something to do with that? I've seen more Catholics do that than Muslims and Hindus combined.

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crisp11

4/15/2013 5:03 AM GMT+0530

The existence of cells is a supposition, albeit one that makes sense in context of events. The travel is real and on-going.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:08 AM GMT+0530

I'd have to say, that if they're traveling openly to other nations, they're not concerned about being identified as enemies of the State... which means they probably aren't... which means that you should probably find some business of your own to worry about.

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demonhunter

4/15/2013 5:09 AM GMT+0530

crisp11- your mind is anything but. what a trash hoard of canards - look it up buddy. anyway, all religions - as some wise person said below - are tools of the devil. what is the prophetic phrase? divide and conquer. what divides us more than anything else - religion! Hallelujah! The Abrahamic God has as much credibility as Zeus - the only thing that matters is that might won out over time for the "3 great religions" and they are working themselves into a frenzy of righteous indignation over the overs - lord almighty help us!

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/15/2013 5:24 AM GMT+0530

@demonhunter - "All religions are tools of the devil." An interesting logical conundrum. You can't say that unless you believe there's a devil. But you can't believe there's a devil unless you're religious. But if you're religious, you're against the devil. Which means you can't say that ALL religions are tools of the devil, because the ALL would include you. So, if you make this statement, you automatically become anti-matter and annihilate yourself!

Liked by 1 reader

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:32 AM GMT+0530

On the other hand, sometimes there's simple irony in commonly used terms like his..." military intelligence" or, say "religious philosophy". My favorite would have to be "compassionate conservatism".

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SamRon1

4/15/2013 5:44 AM GMT+0530

Interesting. I recall my college friend doing her study abroad in Paris and can back engaged to a "romantic" Algerian. They married immediately, lived outside Boston, he became a pizza delivery person, they had some kids then got divorced. Now we don't even know where she is.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:46 AM GMT+0530

"Brender and Eddie had had it already by the summer of '75"~ Billy Joel.

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flow0347

4/15/2013 8:49 AM GMT+0530

How many visits from FBI and homeland security have you had so far?

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Extempraneous

4/15/2013 3:31 AM GMT+0530

It's nice to see that the Washington Post is worried about whether Islam is going to get diluted/polluted by intermarrying with other faiths.

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Bob S.

4/15/2013 4:56 AM GMT+0530

The Washington Post is interested in a lot of things. It's a pretty large website.

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Bob651

4/15/2013 3:18 AM GMT+0530

Any American woman, especially one that thought herself to be a Christian, would have to be looney to marry a Muslim male.....You could wake up one day and fine that Abdul took the kids and decided to return to the faith in his home country......Not to mention, I just don't conceive that men brought up in a culture where dogs are better treated than women could ultimately make the transition to an equal partnership senario..

Liked by 9 readers

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:21 AM GMT+0530

It works in Oklahoma...

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Son of Gullah

4/15/2013 4:36 AM GMT+0530

What culture would that be.....far right conservative????

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:37 AM GMT+0530

men brought up in a culture where dogs are better treated than women

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ceodata

4/15/2013 5:01 AM GMT+0530

They consider dogs to be unclean.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:02 AM GMT+0530

Not in Oklahoma! You'll see more men out with their dogs, than with their wives.

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flow0347

4/15/2013 8:52 AM GMT+0530

Rbaughman,
You do not like Oklahoma? Lived there, just like every other state, something different.

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davecoyne1

4/15/2013 3:05 AM GMT+0530

"...and it’s one of the only organizations to do so." This makes no sense. If it is the only oganization to do so, it is the one and only. If it is not the one and only, it is one of multiple organizations. One of the only five? One of the only 500? The sentence conveys no information.

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pertc47

4/15/2013 3:00 AM GMT+0530

Mohamed has made the list of most popular baby boy names in Minnesota, according to the Social Security Administration (SSA). Mohamed was the 98th most popular boy’s name in 2011 in the state.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:08 AM GMT+0530

Run! Run screaming for the hills! Oh, wait... no hills in Minnesota.....

Liked by 1 reader

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:09 AM GMT+0530

98th... behind Sven, Olaf, Gert, and Yonnson...

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pertc47

4/15/2013 3:12 AM GMT+0530

It didn’t even crack the top 1,000, but “Barack” is still soaring in popularity among baby names, according to the Social Security Administration, which today released its annual report on the most popular baby names in America.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:14 AM GMT+0530

Which has... what to do with what? So there are not as many Biffs, and Tiffanies, and Ambers as last year. Do we need to organize a protest?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:19 AM GMT+0530

Which has... what to do with what? So there are not as many Biffs, and Tiffanies, and Ambers as last year. Do we need to organize a protest?

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pertc47

4/15/2013 3:22 AM GMT+0530

Wow another double post. Is your computer infected with a virus as well?

Anyway,

In 2007, when President Barack Obama was in the early stages of his presidential run, “Barack” ranked 12,535, but in one year his name jumped 10,000 spots to 2,409 in popularity in 2008. And the SSA predicted that number will continue to rise: “Social Security’s sophisticated predictive models are forecasting an increase well into the top 1,000 for Barack for 2009.”

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:25 AM GMT+0530

Wow another double post. Is your computer infected with a virus as well?

So, people admire the president. Imagine that. I remember when every kid I knew was named after Joe Dimaggio. Too back they didn't have the sophisticated predictive models back then, eh?

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pertc47

4/15/2013 3:31 AM GMT+0530

Who said I was complaining about it?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:32 AM GMT+0530

Who said you were complaining about it?

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pertc47

4/15/2013 3:37 AM GMT+0530

Fine.

But getting back to my first post, considering all the problems in Europe, isn't the fact that Islam being the fastest growing population here as well an issue worth addressing?

Liked by 1 reader

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:07 AM GMT+0530

Can't imagine how it makes a single bit of difference if it's Muslims, Catholics, or Pastafarians.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:18 AM GMT+0530

The only growing population in the nation that is an issue worth addressing are THESE yahoos... the one's who give 9mm guns to their 7-year-olds,

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Child-Shot-In-Saline-County-In-Critical-Condition-202878021.html?llsms=171191&c=y

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:34 AM GMT+0530

hmmm. Hidden replies by some cowards. Please don't pretend you're actually responding when you're hiding behind "ignore"...

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jct4

4/15/2013 2:56 AM GMT+0530

As far as I am concerned, anything that dilutes religious identity and contributes to a secular society, is fine by me.

Liked by 8 readers

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Hacim Obmed

4/15/2013 1:59 AM GMT+0530

There has never been a human society that didn't have some sort of religion. Like language, it is universal and probably has some sort of immutable biological (genetic) basis. Just cause it feels like you should have a choice about religion, does not make it so (as we discovered with sexual orientation). In support of this, I notice that all the people I know who claim that religion is bunk, will still have some sort of traditional ceremony when it comes time to bury their mother. So if folks want to try stripping religion out of society they are welcome to try. It will make for an interesting experiment.

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erbkon

4/15/2013 2:22 AM GMT+0530

The experiment has been tried repeatedly. In each case, a new state-sponsored religion took its place. In each case, the result was more dead than could be counted. France, 1789-1799. Russia, 1917. China, 1949. Cambodia, 1975. Germany, 1933-45. Those who say religion can be a source of violence have a point. Those who think the absence of it leads naturally to a more peaceful world are uninformed about history, even the history of their own times.

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henry6

4/15/2013 2:37 AM GMT+0530

That's a nice thought. Language is innate; perhaps religion is somehow also innate? I hadn't thought of that; thank you!

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:10 AM GMT+0530

Yes. Humans used to throw rocks at the moon to make it go away so the sun could come back. That's not genetics, that's ignorance.

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Carl Sandburg

4/15/2013 4:08 AM GMT+0530

And today, some humans throw verbal bricks at beliefs in hopes that faith will go away. That is ignorance also.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 4:14 AM GMT+0530

Common sense just SEEMS like a brick to the head of the religious...

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 1:28 AM GMT+0530

The persistence of religious beliefs in a scientific and rational world defies understanding. But, then again, an enormous amount of resources are brought to bear to perpetuate these brief systems. Perhaps people learn their beliefs at such a young age, before they have developed the capacity to think critically, and, thus, become so invested in them that they would feel a void if they were all of a sudden to lose their faith. Also, young parents often feel compelled to provide a religious education to their young children, thereby perpetuating beliefs that should have become extinct long ago.

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 2:15 AM GMT+0530

Stalin was evil, not because he was an atheist, but because he was a narcissistic psychopath.

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SageThrasher

4/15/2013 2:16 AM GMT+0530

As if religion's hands were clean when it came to mass murder, Lol.

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ceodata

4/15/2013 2:28 AM GMT+0530

@UrbanProgressive: But I am sure that, if Stalin had been Christian, you would have blamed Christianity for the evil he did.

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/15/2013 5:02 AM GMT+0530

Who says we live in a scientific and rational world? I see little evidence of it.

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/15/2013 5:29 AM GMT+0530

The WaPo comment section alone is sufficient proof that humans are neither scientific nor rational.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 5:40 AM GMT+0530

Speak for yourself.
Oh, wait
You just did...

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 1:12 AM GMT+0530

If you're casual about your religious identity, it can be uncomfortable to attend religious services with the religiously devout, when all you seek is a sense of community. The 4%, in effect, drive many of the 96% away with their extreme devotion.

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erbkon

4/15/2013 1:31 AM GMT+0530

Urban, I followed your comments with interest and understanding until I got to this one. Are you suggesting that even in their own churches or synagogues or mosques the devout should suppress full expression of their faith in case there MIGHT be visitors who will be discomfited? If someone of faith wants to plumb the full depths of their tradition they should be allowed to do so. I happen not to like extremes of any kind, but 'extreme devotion' of the 'religiously devout' is a freedom we have in this country. Too often I have seen urban progressives laud social activist nuns but not contemplatives, praise the courage of the pro-abortion dissenters but not charitable workers who quietly help young moms -- in other words, properly conditioned and tamed believers of a certain ideological stripe. If people want 'a sense of community' that is content free, they can go to a bowling league, a bar or a Unitarian church.

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 2:08 AM GMT+0530

While not accepting the assertion that "[only] about 4 percent, regularly attend Friday prayer", a likely reason is that religious practices that are right and sensible in a rural village setting where nearly everyone subscribes to the practices, doesn't subscribe to them.

As one becomes less devoted to their religious traditions, a congregation that strives to instill greater devotion and adherence can drive the people away who don't measure up to their standards.

Liked by 1 reader

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 2:13 AM GMT+0530

(Inadvertently deleted this part) , … doesn’t necessarily makes sense in a modern urban setting where nearly everyone doesn't subscribe to them.

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jaguar943-one

4/15/2013 5:05 AM GMT+0530

Sounds like the Republican Party to me.

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 1:04 AM GMT+0530

Muslims are 1B strong throughout the world. Intermarriage does not present the existential threat to their cultural existence, as many Jews fear that interfaith marriage does to theirs.

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henry6

4/15/2013 2:41 AM GMT+0530

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all branches of one religion. The major independent religion is Hinduism, which has no identified human founder, but is bottled up in India. I'd like to see Hinduism become a world-wide phenomenon; I think myself it is closer to God than is the other.

Liked by 2 readers

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/15/2013 5:05 AM GMT+0530

Buddhism, which is derivative of Hinduism, has proved more portable than Hinduism. Not sure why.

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UrbanProgressive

4/15/2013 12:59 AM GMT+0530

My wife and I have a mixed marriage.We raised our children in the Jewish (my wife's) faith, with the hope that they would be comfortable and knowledgeable of their Jewish tradition, but free to make their own choices when they became adults. I feel that we have accomplished that.

Liked by 2 readers

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cs9243

4/15/2013 12:43 AM GMT+0530

"So, no matter whom a Muslim man marries, his children will be considered Muslim."
That explains why under Islamic law men are allowed to marry out of the faith. Muslim women are not allowed to mingle with men, so no need to worry about them. No wonder Islam is he fastest growing religion. Double standard .

Liked by 3 readers

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SageThrasher

4/15/2013 2:11 AM GMT+0530

There are many individual Muslim men who don't believe this on a personal level, but within Islam, women are chattel, and brood mares.

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:11 AM GMT+0530

What a coincidence! Oklahoma too!

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flow0347

4/15/2013 9:00 AM GMT+0530

Rbaughman
Are you from Texas or California ? Why so hard on Oklahoma ?

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birddog2012

4/15/2013 12:32 AM GMT+0530

I think the only religion that does'nt seem to have a problem with a dual belief system is the Buddhist religion. I've never seem to raise so much as an eyebrow when I tell my Buddhist friends or aquaintances that I'am a Christian-Buddhist (they usually only nod or say encouraging things) but many times the Christians, Jews or Muslims whom I tell this to, all too often become dogmatic or at least condenscending toward me. There just seems to be so much tribalism inherent in the Desert religions that I often wonder why bother to try and explain to someone who is of the Abrahamic faith about your personal cosmology when their own belife structure causes them to automaticly put another into a hierachy that solely consists of either "Saved" or "Damned"?
Just another reason to keep ones own faith to ones self and simply live ones life to ones own best ability ....

Birddog

Liked by 1 reader

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janby_wp

4/15/2013 12:13 AM GMT+0530

Any changes which occur are of interest only to social scholars and historians, and perhaps to families involved. The article doesn't stipulate what faith anyone keeps or if they keep one at all. Again no ones business. Religion is the festering infection across all peoples when it is allowed to surface in every day thinking and decision making. This is especially true of Americans as they are the most ignorant of all people when it comes to a real understanding of other "religions". The only fatith that matters is the practice of worship through daily living. Those who spend money for their own pleasurable lifestyle worship the dollar bill and that only. A very worthless faith.

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worth2

4/14/2013 11:53 PM GMT+0530

Jews and Christians have made the transition into the modern era by becoming more secular and less adamant on their literal interpretations of the Biblical texts. Muslims will benefit from doing the same.

Liked by 4 readers

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williambellah

4/14/2013 11:39 PM GMT+0530

It wouldn't hurt to point out that we live in a Democracy and are a free people and interfaith and interracial marriage are accepted and common place. There are those who claim to be a free people like Israel for instance, where it is forbidden to marry outside the faith/race. You must prove your Jewish ancestry in order to marry in todays Israel. The Palestinians accuse Israel of being a Racist State, do they make a point?

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Idiot

4/14/2013 11:11 PM GMT+0530

My first wife was a Muslim from India .. she was taken from all of us by a drunk driver.
A brilliant scientist in her own right.
Interacting with very different cultures and societies I found the more people try
to believe they are different the more they are actually alike.

"The only thing thing to fear is fear itself", FDR.

Idiot

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/14/2013 10:57 PM GMT+0530

Muslims, unlike Jews, are not an identifiable ethnic group. There are middle eastern muslims, north african, west african, indonesian muslims, and more. This may make intermarriage easier and faster. There's no overriding ethnic identity to preserve.

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DJWinMassachusetts

4/14/2013 11:00 PM GMT+0530

And, yes, I do know that there are ethnic subgroups within Judaism, but it's not the same thing.

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D123O456E

4/14/2013 10:52 PM GMT+0530

"When Muslims intermarry, do they keep the faith?"

Does anyone care one way or the other?

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kate.nasi8

4/14/2013 10:27 PM GMT+0530

Muslims seem more concerned about converting their partner to Islam.

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chowlett1

4/14/2013 10:48 PM GMT+0530

Citation? Personal experience?

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:12 AM GMT+0530

More concerned that whom? Or should I ask, WHICH members of other religions?

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citizen625

4/14/2013 10:24 PM GMT+0530

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pertc47

4/14/2013 10:22 PM GMT+0530

"30% marrying outside their faith"

If you believe that I have a bridge in Cleveland to sell. Didn't Newsweek once say that our Muslim population is now at 8% based on figures presented from CAIR?

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chowlett1

4/14/2013 10:50 PM GMT+0530

And yet 30% of that small population might still be marrying outside. Percentages are not absolute numbers.

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Islandoll

4/14/2013 10:11 PM GMT+0530

In any marriage between people of different religions, unless one of the spouses converts, the answer is no.

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Ynot

4/14/2013 9:57 PM GMT+0530

Mark Twain summed up religion perfectly when he said "Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool."

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rbaughman1

4/15/2013 3:16 AM GMT+0530

See "Joseph Smith"...

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NL_from_Houston

4/14/2013 9:52 PM GMT+0530

Intermarriage is the result of a liberal democracy and a tolerant society. It also represents the emergence of a common American culture that is more prevailing than the ethnic or religious background from which individuals came. The process takes generations for that Americanism to become dominant, but it should be celebrated, not condemned.

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cricket35

4/14/2013 10:32 PM GMT+0530

Our American culture has been successful because it has been predeominantly Christian. Because the nature of Islam is at odds with Christianity and democracy, it will be interesting to see where the country is 30 years from now.

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chowlett1

4/14/2013 10:52 PM GMT+0530

Cricket, for long years Protestants and Catholics did not consider each other "Christians". They viewed the other as heretical and renegade. So the universality that you are positing did not exist. And in fact in the south, Catholics and Jews were frequently targeted, and in the north Catholics were unwelcome outside city enclaves.

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cricket35

4/15/2013 1:13 AM GMT+0530

Don't disagree that Protestants and Catholics have had issues over the years. Protestants have disagreed with the Pope's authority for centuries. While there have been differences between the two, we haven't gone down the path of Irish Protestants and Catholics fighting and killing each other over these differences. We've been able to work for the betterment of the country which is still predominately Christian. As a Catholic of color, am very aware of the disdain that some Protestants have for Catholics. Research the history of the state of Maryland and you'll see that Catholicism has a very strong history from the earliest days of our country. However, Islam and a belief in Muhammad is not part of American history. This new chapter in our country is yet to be written and from what we know of Islam, we should all be concerned for our country's future and our children. Venture to say that our country will be very different 30 years from now with the infux of Muslims into the country.

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PaulinMaryland

4/14/2013 9:43 PM GMT+0530

In urging religious communities to host singles events, Jonathan Sarna lives by his words. I met my first wife in 1981 at his Cincinnati home, when Professor Sarna hosted a discussion group for Jewish singles. From that marriage came a fine Jewish son and, later, four wonderful Jewish grandsons.

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citizen625

4/14/2013 10:14 PM GMT+0530

Did you feel the need to indoctrinate your children into Judaism, or did you trust them to make their own spiritual decisions when they were mature enough to make those spiritual decisions themselves?
The way you write about children, their "Jewish" is more important than anything else.

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PaulinMaryland

4/14/2013 10:39 PM GMT+0530

I felt the need to indoctrinate them.

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kloanchoyss

4/14/2013 9:12 PM GMT+0530

Emeinel

Come now--at least she had the sense to espouse an Irishman!

Shameful that so many comments on this site betray the grimier species of jingoism & ethnism...as the Maslov & Hartman 'level structures' illustrated--all H. unsapiens are identical in their hopes, fears & foibles...only the details differ.

So let's cast a closer glance into the shaving mirror & recognize the Good & Evil in all of us; it's taken respondent almost nine decades to figure it out.

If man gave up hatred & suspicion, he could turn his fateful anabasis into a triumph of sunlit peace...but he hasn't long.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 9:08 PM GMT+0530

Since we are having such an enormous budget deficit problem, how about all these religious institutions volunteering to end their tax exempt status, for the good of the country?

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CopyKinetics

4/14/2013 8:51 PM GMT+0530

I think most would say, who cares? Beyond that, the problem here as elsewhere is people who can't think outside their faith.

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kloanchoyss

4/14/2013 8:36 PM GMT+0530

Common sense & countless studies have shown that transcendental religion is not specially germane in ethics, & morality is learned 'at the mother's knee'....in fact, there's neither logic nor evidence favoring deities of any stripe.

Still, if they haven't much expertise in probability, even militant atheists have trouble accommodating, let alone embracing, certain brutal facts.

For example, 'will', soi-disant, is not demonstrable, but manifests in a boundless tangle of effects pursued by causes & back again--persuasive, but spurious [vide Libet et alia]...what we call 'mind' seems to be an artifact of modular consensus, bubbling up 40 times-per-second by virtue of 20kh sweeper-waves.

We skeptics must then weigh quantum-derived probabilities that the kosmos is an infinite series of nested holograms [Suskind] or just conventional multiverses [Bostrum & Boltzmann].

As a reward for such strenuous lucubration, we plunge swiftly to extinction in a blind, meaningless void, courtesy of Messor Gravis...few can stare down that ontological gunbarrel w/o flinching.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 8:25 PM GMT+0530

As our Muslim population grows all the problems Europe is having will eventually happen here as well.

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dangh

4/14/2013 8:39 PM GMT+0530

Ridiculous.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 8:48 PM GMT+0530

Amir Abdel Malik speach at UCLA invokes the the Muslim Students Association's pledge of allegiance:

"I will die to establish Islam"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy3MGIPLevM&feature=player_embedded

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rmurph36

4/14/2013 8:51 PM GMT+0530

Not if this article is true and they marry out of their faith and are middle class. The European Muslims appear to be of lower classes and as we know they cling to their guns and religion.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 8:55 PM GMT+0530

rmurph36,

In the Channel 4 Dispatches Muslim Survey, one of the most comprehensive surveys to date of Muslim opinion in Britain, it shows that a new generation of Muslims is being raised to be much more radical than its parents. It also shows that Muslim integration into British society has effectively come to a halt. Although immigrants to Britain usually have tended to become more secular and less religious than their parents by the second generation, the survey shows Muslims have gone in precisely the opposite direction.

The Dispatches survey shows that today's young British Muslims are less liberal and more devout than their parents. Their beliefs render many of them determined not just to be different, but also to be separate from the rest of Britain.

-----> Although it is often assumed that those holding the most radical anti-Western views are from the lower socio-economic classes, the survey shows that the well-off and well-educated are just as likely to identify with radical Islam.

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1703/uk-anti-semitism-mus...

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ValleyGrrl

4/14/2013 9:20 PM GMT+0530

Keep reading to the end & you will discover why this is true in some cases. It's about lack of integration & confusion about identity. Often it's also a produce of a lack of religious knowledge that makes these young people vulnerable to self-styled religious teachers promoting ignorance & bigotry.

You also need to be aware of how tight these communities are - e.g. of the 60,000 Muslims in Glasgow, about 85% come from the same town. These families have all known each other & developed connections through marriage for generations. Their ways of organising themselves are going to be very different from smallish groups of highly educated Muslims from a wider range of ethnic backgrounds.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 9:30 PM GMT+0530

"Often it's also a produce of a lack of religious knowledge that makes these young people vulnerable to self-styled religious teachers promoting ignorance & bigotry."

Not true, they are simply following exactly what the Quran says. Read it for yourself:

http://www.quranexplorer.com/

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betsys2003

4/14/2013 10:08 PM GMT+0530

30% marrying outside their faith would tend to NOT end up in the next generation becoming more radical. I would imagine it's much harder to be radical if half of your family doesn't believe in a faith. Just as the woman gained insight into Islam with her son-in-law, a child who grows up with one Muslim parent and one Christian/Jewish/not religious parent is probably going to have more respect for those other positions.

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pertc47

4/14/2013 10:24 PM GMT+0530

"30% marrying outside their faith"

If you believe that I have a bridge in Cleveland to sell. Didn't Newsweek once say that our Muslim population is now at 8% based on figures presented from CAIR?

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:32 PM GMT+0530

For those Muslims who think Allah will punish them if they drink alcohol, relax. Allah allows alcohol. Here is the verse set. 16 : 65-67

"And God sendeth down water from Heaven, and by it giveth life to the Earth after it hath been dead: verily, in this is a sign to those who hearken.

Ye have also teaching from the cattle. We give you drink of the pure milk, between dregs( urine and excrement, it was very common for Arabs to drink camel urine as medicine mixed with milch milk and use the dung for fuel) and blood, which is in their bellies; the pleasant beverage of them that quaff it.

And among fruits ye have the palm and the vine, from which ye get wine and healthful nutriment; in this verily, are signs for those who reflect.

Verses 16 : 65-67

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pjs-1965

4/14/2013 7:24 PM GMT+0530

Christianity and Islam are both nuts. They go about trying to convert everyone who disagrees with them including each other. They deserve each other. Maybe there are possibilities with a christian-mulimMingle.com.

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The-Historian

4/14/2013 7:20 PM GMT+0530

" He says that of the roughly 750,000 Muslims living in Southern California, just 30,000, or about 4 percent, regularly attend Friday prayer."

How many catholic regularly attend sunday services?
How many of any religion regularly attend services?

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:33 PM GMT+0530

Maybe a Muslim can write an article about Catholics.

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tanksleyd

4/14/2013 7:08 PM GMT+0530

Ya'know in movies from the 1930's and earlier you can actually see where people had concerns about "intermarrying" among the new (at that time) European Immigrants.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:11 PM GMT+0530

All ethnic tribal groups hate cross culture marriages. All empires have these because they are inclusive whereas societies like say, Saudi Arabia or Israel, that are all about tribal identity hate these marriages.

And Israel HATES this with a passion! They decry these marriages all the time and children born of a 'dirty' non-Jewish woman has no rights in Israel which recognizes only Jewish female offspring.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:11 PM GMT+0530

Can't edit: they recognize the offspring of Jewish females but not Jewish males if the marriage is mixed.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:01 PM GMT+0530

Dear Washington Post: could you PLEASE hire more than just Jewish writers????

This is getting ridiculous. The minute I saw the headline, I said, 'This has to be yet another Jewish writer talking about Muslims yet again!' And viola, it was.

Hire at least one Muslim, please? And while you are at it, how about hiring someone who is from a Protestant liberal background? You could hire me, for example. I can write editorials just as easily as anyone who is Jewish.

The number of Jewish reporters and editorialists here are way beyond the percentage of population, what is it, 70%?

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:07 PM GMT+0530

That is because Jews are smarter than Muslims , they are smarter than all other people. Jews are less than 20 million in the whole world but they have won over 30% of Nobel prizes. It is that little cap that they put on their heads that concentrates their IQ.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:09 PM GMT+0530

No, this has nothing to do with intelligence. Look at Krauthammer, for example. He strikes me as quite stupid.

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Kingofkings1

4/14/2013 7:14 PM GMT+0530

Is it possible that the Nobel awarding organization is rigged?

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tanksleyd

4/14/2013 7:17 PM GMT+0530

Ya'know as a Black Baby Boomer I was always perplexed by the 1930's German Jew. Aside from the fact that the first historical mention of the word "Racism" seems to have been created for them, I was perplexed as to how could Whites be so cruel to "Whites"?
.
Still such perplexions though allows me to envoke the name of Anne Frank to illustrate my concerns for Humanity....I assure you "Anne Frank" works far better than "Kunta Kinte".

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:26 PM GMT+0530

Farid Zakaria, who was caught redhanded plagiarizing, is a Muslim.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:30 PM GMT+0530

Krauthammer is very intelligent. he is a medical doctor by education. he is paralyzed. He is also too much to the right but sometimes he tells the truth.

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betsys2003

4/14/2013 10:11 PM GMT+0530

I suppose you might have an argument with this article, but in general, I don't look at the bylines to see whether they are male or female, and certainly not trying to identify their religion. I read the articles. Why are you so obsessed that you know how many Jewish reporters there are?

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citizen625

4/14/2013 10:32 PM GMT+0530

I gotta love the guy who says, "jews are smarter....". Is that like the chlidhood taunt "my dad can beat up your dad?"

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coloradoflats

4/14/2013 6:41 PM GMT+0530

Which part of their body is hacked off with a sword if they don't keep their faith?

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Puller58

4/14/2013 6:29 PM GMT+0530

When you hear about spousal interference in child custody like the recent story about the Iranian who tried to keep his daughter in Iran, you know all you need to know about how well "intermarriage" works.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:02 PM GMT+0530

Happens all the time to Americans marrying Japanese.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:27 PM GMT+0530

Must be Muslim Japanese. By the way did u know that the 9 year old Aisha was prepubescent when Muhammad first took her to bed?

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betsys2003

4/14/2013 10:12 PM GMT+0530

If both people are US citizens living in the US that seems unlikely.

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dmhnc

4/14/2013 6:28 PM GMT+0530

This article suggested tor the first time to me that tne century-old rise of marriages between American Jews and Christians may have been (partly) a result and a cause of political integration of Jews into mainstream America. That thought lends itself to the suspicion that intermarriage of American Muslims and Christians may trend toward the same pattern. Hmm.

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jimski2

4/14/2013 6:27 PM GMT+0530

The children of Muslim life carry on with some of the practices but my neighbors three daughters have divorced their arranged marriage husbands and started new lives.

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Rocko1

4/14/2013 5:54 PM GMT+0530

what this article fails to mention is many times the muslim men marry non-muslims and the women generally must convert AND live an islamic lifestyle (head coverings etc).

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 4:50 PM GMT+0530

I notice that "Al" in this story wasn't a particularly religious before his marriage. In that case what "faith" was he going to keep.

Like a lot of what passes for analysis, pundits lose sight of reality.

Many of my fellow tribesmen don't keep kashrut. Sadly I've seen many a man walk 4 cubits without a kippah - if you can believe that! And how many have married their brother's widow? Or have been on the rooftop when the widow is in the garden below? A story that caused my buddy Benny (yeah there's one in every shul) to say "I've really got to make aliyah if that's a common practice in the Holy Land" -- though it's pretty clear he was not thinking of "ascent" as much as of the (acrobatic) descent. We are apparently a people of many talents!

Many a Muslim I know likes nothing better than a "summer beef" sandwich. And I have been drunk under the table by more than one Muslim as part of richly rewarding interfaith exchanges.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 4:53 PM GMT+0530

The Quran praises alcohol. Muslims misread the Quran.

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 5:02 PM GMT+0530

Sorry, you're flat out wrong.

Here are the citations. I did more in my interfaith meetings with Muslims than drink.

A Quranic reference: 5:90

And there is a famous hadith "Alcohol is the mother of all evil".

Pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about here, which casts doubts on the accuracy of your other posts.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 6:11 PM GMT+0530

Here is the verse that praises alcohol.

And Allāh sends down water from the sky, then He revives the earth therewith after its death. Verily, in this is a sign for people who listen .

And verily! In the cattle, there is a lesson for you. We give you to drink of that which is in their bellies, from between excretions and blood, pure milk; palatable to the drinkers.

And from the fruits of date-palms and grapes, you derive intoxicants, a goodly provision. Verily, therein is indeed a sign for people who have wisdom.

An Nahl, 16: 65--67

Now the Arabic for 16:67

Wa Min Thamarāti An-Nakhīli Wa Al-'A`nābi Tattakhidhūna Minhu Sakarāan Wa Rizqāan Ĥasanāan 'Inna Fī Dhālika La'āyatan Liqawmin Ya`qilūna

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 6:59 PM GMT+0530

I think a reasonable alternative reading is "intoxicants and wholesome sustenance". - showing that the same thing can produce both good and evil. And that is the sign for people with wisdom.

Why do I say that?

Firstl, the "wa" which means and. One gets "X' and "Y" from them.

X = intoxicants

Y= sustenance and the adjective hasanan (good) is attached here. Since sustenance is good by its nature, the use of hasanan here is to distinguish it from intoxicants.

Otherwise it should read sakran hasanan and rizqan. (Good intoxicants and sustenance).

In any case, while we can debate the translation, the prohibition of alcohol is crystal clear.

.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:23 PM GMT+0530

Not crystal clear to me. What is clear in a crystalline way is that the idol Allah cannot make up his mind and is confused. here is translation from Rodwell. His is the best translation I have read, brings out the poetry very beautifully, a pleasure to read even for an atheist like me.

"And God sendeth down water from Heaven, and by it giveth life to the Earth after it hath been dead: verily, in this is a sign to those who hearken.

Ye have also teaching from the cattle. We give you drink of the pure milk, between dregs( urine and excrement, it was very common for Arabs to drink camel urine and use their dung for fuel) and blood, which is in their bellies; the pleasant beverage of them that quaff it.

And among fruits ye have the palm and the vine, from which ye get wine and healthful nutriment; in this verily, are signs for those who reflect.

Verses 16 : 65-67

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 9:56 PM GMT+0530

Anthropotheism is fundamental heresy in most faiths -when those faiths are properly understood. The God does not change his mind. He doesn't get angry. He doesn't get sad. He doesn't work. And he doesn't rest. And he is not a he or she.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 10:05 PM GMT+0530

But he does many times in the Quran. Also I was waiting to see if you knew anything about Islam because you mad ad hominem attacks against me. The first verse regarding alcohol praising it was written when Muhammad was in Mecca and relatively honest and compassionate. After he went Medina and became powerful he also became ruthless corrup and evil, so the second 5:90 was written banning alcohol.

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 4:38 PM GMT+0530

So, if Islam is passed through the father, and Judaism through the mother, isn't the solution to the Arab Israeli problem pretty easy? Intermarriage - one Muslim man one Jewish woman.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 4:55 PM GMT+0530

There are 500 million Arab Muslims, 250 million Arab Muslim men. There only 5 million Israeli Jews, only 2.5 million Israeli Jewish women. So each Jewish woman would have to have 100 husbands.

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 5:03 PM GMT+0530

I'm just going to have the Palestinians marry the Israelis.

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 7:07 PM GMT+0530

No comments please about Jewish mothers in law.

By the way mine's a real gem.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 7:23 PM GMT+0530

Did u make ur Jewish MIL convert to islam 2?

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R49Thomas

4/14/2013 9:47 PM GMT+0530

Umm, nope.

We're a single faith family. The only mixing is the Ashkenazi with the MIzrahi. My ML is the spice in the bland European mix.

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betsys2003

4/14/2013 10:14 PM GMT+0530

Nope, because then they will just fight over what the kids are - everyone will want them. Better is Jewish man/Muslim woman. Then nobody claims them and they can live in peace however they choose.

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R49Thomas

4/15/2013 12:38 AM GMT+0530

Betsy

Perhaps but under my scheme. Israel would be the Jewish homeland because given the maternal link - all children would be Jewish.

For the Arabs not a complete mirror. The Christians would be left out but for the rest of the Arabs they'd have a Muslim state.

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Kingofkings1

4/14/2013 3:48 PM GMT+0530

This is a useful article, the topic of which is necessary for a proper understanding of islam in America and American muslims. Gone are the days when a parent from America could take his or her muslim child for marriage in "the old country" and return awith a spouse with whom Mohammed or Fatima will begin a blissful life of marriage, as Mohammed or Fatima find that they have very little in common with someone who doesn't understand their culture or thought processes

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 3:43 PM GMT+0530

In Islam there is such a thing called "Sunnah". It requires Muslims to follow the example of Mullah Muhammad bin Abdullah, the founder of Islam. Mullah Abdullah had several wives and concubines but he refused to marry any concubine that did not convert to Islam. Saffiya was a 14 or 15 year Jewish child whose husband Mullah Abdullah and his men had murdered before stealing the land and property of the tribe Saffiya belonged to. Mullah Abdullah took her to bed the same day as a concubine or "booty" as the Quran calls it. She later in a few days agreed to convert and she became another wife of Mullah Abdullah . Mullah Muhammad also killed the husband of the Jewis child Rayhana of the banu Qurayza tribe of Jews and added her to his harem when she was a mere 14 or 15 and he was nearly 60. She refused to convert and he did not marry her. Maria, a Christian teenager was "gifted " to Mullah Muhammad by the ruler of Egypt. She remained a Christian and bore Mullah Abdullah a son, Ibrahim, out of wedlock. She was promoted to Umm Walaad a title given to slave concubines that got impregnated by their masters.

Muslim men are not allowed to marry non-Muslim women unless they convert , otherwise the Arabic idol Allah will punish them with eternal fire as promised in the Quran. It is good to note that Muslims are shedding their fear of Mullah Abdullah and doing the right thing.

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TimToomey

4/14/2013 4:44 PM GMT+0530

You know that the word Allah is merely the translation of the word God don't you? I assume that you do since this is a rather lengthy researched posting. Which leads me to question why you would refer to God as an Arabic Idol.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 4:48 PM GMT+0530

Idols are anything that is worshiped but is not God. Christians worship the idol Jesus, Muslims worship the idol Allah, Hindus worship millions of idols, some Hindus even worship rats. there is a rat temple in India. By the way I am Hindu.

Idols do not have to be statues,or drawn images etc. Idols can be made with words. Thus Allah is an idol made with words by Muhammad or whoever wrote the Quran.

The Hind worshiping the rat belives that the rat is God. Christians belive that the idol Jesus is God. Muslims belive that the idol Allah is God.

One man's God is another man's idol.

Hope I have answered your question.

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honorswar26

4/14/2013 5:04 PM GMT+0530

Tim. Actually, prior to the time of Mohammed, the Arabs were polythesists, i.e. they believed in many different gods....the sun god, the earth god, the water god, the moon god, etc. Guess what the name of the moon god was in Mohammed's day was?

Allah.

So they continue to worship the moon god even to this day.

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rbaughman1

4/14/2013 5:21 PM GMT+0530

Jesus! What a bucket of horseapples! You people are talking about scribblings from ancient, superstious goatherds. The Bible, the Tora, the Quran, mullahs, and miracles.. please! Use your brain for something more than studying a people who thought they could absolve the village sins by smearing a goat's head with blood and turning him loose in the hills.

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Tended Olive

4/14/2013 1:40 PM GMT+0530

No. Islam cannot live in vacuum. There must be conflict for it to exist and have meaning. Granted, some inter-faith marriages will work but the majority will be divisive and fail. Islam gives all power to the man. The woman (I await my detractors comments with baited breathe!) is voiceless....no matter what you say, the woman is without regard.

Successful inter-faith marriages will be the exception to the rule.

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lldemats

4/14/2013 12:54 PM GMT+0530

There are too many stories of immigrant muslim men marrying American women for greencards, then citizenship; then divorcing the American woman to marry a muslim woman from "back home"....maybe that was the plan all along. And there are too many stories of muslim men feigning a visit to the folks back home with the kids, then deciding they really don't want to go back to the US after all, and by the way, I'm keeping the kids. Marriage is a hard thing to begin with, I don't see why anyone would want to complicate their lives even more by marrying into a culture that is so different from one's own. Eventually, we all revert back to who we really are.

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Hermit1951

4/14/2013 12:13 PM GMT+0530

Proponents hailed Barrack Obama's ascension to the White House as monumental; Abraham Lincoln's dream that all men are created equal incarnate.

Enter Naomi Schaefer Riley, stage left, warning American women that if they marry a Muslim, and don't raise their children in strict Muslim beliefs that the men will eventually hate them, the child will grow up without an identity, and the world will shun them as gold diggers. Way to keep the race relations hate speech up to par.

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emeinel

4/14/2013 7:06 PM GMT+0530

She is a Jewish writer. So she is very biased. AS is most of the WP staff who carry this business throughout the newspaper. When it comes to talking about marriage, they go nuts.

Jewish/Christian marriages most often have the children raised with no religion or in Judaism. And Jews love this. So why whine if anyone else does this?

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DerBlaueEngel

4/14/2013 12:02 PM GMT+0530

Even more baffling than a Christian-Muslim marriage: James Carville and Mary Matalin!

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 4:51 PM GMT+0530

Both Carville and Matalin secretly converted to Islam, hoping that our kenyan Muslim president Hussain Obama would include them in his inner circle. The CIA director too has reportedly become a Muslim. The unstoppable march of islam. We are all born Muslims according to Mullah Muhammad who founded Islam. It is our parents that mislead us out of the right path.

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lohdennis

4/14/2013 11:18 AM GMT+0530

This is a silly article. While the author might know something about Jews from her own life, she treats Muslims as a class with very little understanding of its diversity. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, unlike perhaps 15 million Jews. They are significantly more diverse in their practice of religion with tens, if not hundreds of millions practicing in a particular way. Muslims have been living in highly integrated societies throughout history with very high level of "other" religions historically. I find these anecdotal examples as being quite useless in understanding the trends and factors that play in a much larger and diverse Muslims, event in the US. I am very disappointed at the "shallowness" of analysis.

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kate.nasi8

4/14/2013 9:50 AM GMT+0530

Muslims' actions seem to be fascist.

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pjs-1965

4/14/2013 9:49 AM GMT+0530

Perhaps diluting religions with each other over over a few generations will be a big step in getting rid of these silly anachronisms altogether. Religion, particularly the Abrahamic ones, are bunk.

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lldemats

4/14/2013 12:44 PM GMT+0530

It's ALL bunk, my friends. Superstitious and harmful.

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jailkkhosla

4/14/2013 3:53 PM GMT+0530

All religions in their time made sense t practitioners. The scriptures were written by the 1% who could read and write but belived that the sun went around the earth. The other 99% were illiterate. In the Quran Allah states that the sun sets in a muddy pool at the end of the day. Other scriptures are full of similar nonsense.

If educated people today continue to follow these dinosaurs then they are only insulting God.

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rbaughman1

4/14/2013 5:24 PM GMT+0530

"insulting God" is bunk. People insult god by pretending that 7 billion parasites, destroying and consuming everything they touch, while burning fossil fuels 24-7, does nothing to our environment.

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pjs-1965

4/14/2013 7:19 PM GMT+0530

rbaughman, if "Gos" is Nature then that makes sense. A pantheistic view that sees God as the Universe itself and everything in it, and acknowledges the interdependence of all things makes much more sense than a God as a separate all-powerful judgemental big daddy entity in the sky that is responsible for it all.

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HasTek

4/21/2013 10:56 PM GMT+0530

Jailkkhosla,
I do respect everybody's view on the religious scriptures... My humble suggestion is, if you would like to examine any religious scriptures, do it yourself or goto a trustable source.. Don't go to the hate filled Answering .com style of website that just spreads such ignorance and false information and people just believe in iet like the people who liked your comment.. The Quran quote you gave is one such thing. It is a story about the King Alexander and what he sees.. in a poetic way... Next dangerous thing after the terrorism is this kind of act of spreading ignorance and hate. I pray to the God that created you and me to guide us in a righteous and peaceful path. Now the details...
...it was the time of sunset when Zulqarnain(Alexander) was standing on the shore and looking at the astonishing sight, because when a person stands on the seashore, then due to the earth being spherical, at the time of sunset he gets to see that the sun is slowly going down in the sea on the last point of the horizon. On the same basis the Holy Quran also narrates the state and the feelings of Zulqarnain in this way....

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Soulstranger

4/14/2013 7:22 AM GMT+0530

TImes change. When I was growing up, you rarely ran into Catholics, Mormons or Jews who married outside their faith - now it's common.

Islam is not a monolith. There is an incredible amount of diversity. Some will adjust and become more tolerant of other faiths, capable of marrying without insisting that their spouse and children must be Muslim. Many others will stay the same or become even more insular and conservative about their faith.

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GOPwatsgoindown

4/14/2013 4:10 AM GMT+0530

Maybe if we are luckey all the religions wll dissappear from lack of interest by the childern. One can be a moral good person without all the hocus pocus of the details created by dead ancient prophets.

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rrpopseal

4/14/2013 9:33 AM GMT+0530

My thinking was not far from yours when I was very much younger. Because of the evident life changes of several of my friends some years ago, I received Christ into my life and the profound results have been all good. I have to admit I don't like the slander I get because of TV evangelists and other hucksters. That Osteen guy creeps me out. On the plus side, the life story of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his battle against Hitler for his Lutheran faith is powerful. C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" puts a lot of the religious 'hokum' to rest too.

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roberto3

4/14/2013 7:55 PM GMT+0530

Smart idea. But when time comes to think about life's bigger questions..why are you here, where are we all going, then we will turn back to ancient philosophers and their scriptures..and may be wish we didn't waste so much of our life living off like animals, however good and kind..?

I think human beings were given something called intellect that animals don't (at least it doesn't seem obvious). Throwing away that faculty and all the works of great men and women of yore, makes us no different than a vegetable or an animal.

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Pogo4

4/14/2013 4:01 AM GMT+0530

There are educated Muslim men for whom the community at the mosque is very important - less so for the women. But many Muslim men educated in the US aren't all that tied to Islam. If they marry an non-Muslim chances are the kids will not be very assiduous Muslims.

Once an educated Muslim man chooses a non-Muslim wife - chances are the kids won't be keen on going to the mosque - though they may be glad to respect some of the traditions. For a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim the chances are even greater that the kids won't be very diligent about following Islam - which tends to be centered on men going to the Mosque for the Friday prayer, men praying together in mats five times a day - and as a sideline women pray together. But if the father doesn't pray with Muslims, the male children are very unlikely to want to do that.

In a fully Muslim society, there is substantial community pressure to follow the religious practices. For people in the US, there is much less pressure and like Jews in America, many educated Muslims in America will only occasionally follow Muslim practices, perhaps not insisting on praying at work etc.

For girls at school wearing headscarfs, there must be sometimes a desire to stop being so different and to conform to some American cultural habits. I was at a high school a few months and saw a Muslim girl with a headscarf playing a game of pick up basketball with non-Muslim teenage boys and girls.

Egyptians traditionally knew that if their girls went abroad they would be tempted to abandon the faith. That was a major reason for the establishment of the American University of Cairo - to educate girls so they would not have to go abroad for a university education. American remains a melting pot. There will always be deeply religous people but many of the kids will diverge from the religous practices of their parents.

Ghulam Muhammed

Saturday, June 29, 2013